Friday, June 6, 2008

"Pep Flags is a sport"

I found this post on this wordpress blog

This post is for a certain “kirbycurse” (see Blog Review: videotapegames). PEP FLAGS, DRILL TEAM, DANCE, ETC ETC ARE SPORTS.

Okay. You’re argument was that you don’t earn your scores, someone gives them to you. The only thing is: you earn those scores! Judges for dance competitions etc. wouldn’t score you super high if you sucked, and vice versa. Honestly, although not directly earning a ’score’, for example, shooting a soccer ball into the goal, you are indirectly earning your points through the judges professional discretion. If that argument stands, skiing is no longer a sport, nor is diving, gymnastics, figure skating… The list goes on and on.

Kirbycurse, provide a counterargument, or I assume victory! Others, agree with me or kirbycurse?

P.S. - A certain bandgeek, sorry to steal your idea. I’m not trying to do so, but your thinking galvanized this argument to mind, and it was never quite settled. Sorry… you can still say why you think marching band is a sport, etc. This is merely for argumentative purposes, not speculative. Sorry again.

I guess it just calls for a debate on..

..whether Pep flags can be seriously designated as a sport with the whole scoring by judges. What do you think?


kirbycurse said...

I disagree. A sport is something that you must EARN points, for yourself. Not be awarded points, but actually EARN them, by performing a task. It isn't like dance where you get graded on it, but something that you actually perform a task, and you get points, like soccer in scoring a goal.

Anonymous said...

Haha. It's a sport. Get over it.

Pep squaders are awarded points because they earn it... by performing tasks..... So... according to your standards, it's a sport! Yay. You don't get "grades" for competitions. Otherwise, we'd have "A" placings, "B" placings.. not 1st, 2nd, 3rd... which, coincidentally... is the same as sports' placings!

And.. I think PEP SQUADS are harder than other sports (in regards to points) because what other sport can you actually LOSE points?! Hmm... You don't lose points if you drop the ball or step out of bounds .. granted you get fouls, but you don't LOSE points.

So.. SPORT ON PEP SQUADERS!!... It's a sport... Hey, they even show competitions on ESPN2... and correct me if I'm wrong.. isn't that a sport's channel?!?

Kirbycurse said...

They show ARM WRESTLING on ESPN. And you get 1st 2nd and 3rd in lots of things. And by EARN, I mean meet certain requirements. LOOK AT THE DEFINITION OF GOAL IN THE FIFA RULES. THAT IS EARNED. THE PLAYERS PUT THE BALL THERE. And I never said that pep flags was a sport. So to me, your point about difficulty is null. It may be difficult like trying to fly by strapping bricks to yourself, but it's not a sport.

Anonymous said...

i think it's better to leave pep flags/drill team/dancing in its own category rather than be considered a sport because sports/squads are both different things in so many ways. for example sports are about an hour or more to play and in squads, you have 3 minutes or under. anyway what i'm trying to say is its better the way it is. with squads you use everything, energy, flexibility, endurance, strength while sports you hardly use flexibility =)

Kirbycurse said...

I actually quite agree with that. Thank you, whoever that is.

seffy said...

It is a sport! Just because we aren't jocks, doesn't mean we don't have to train or be as competitive as conventional sports... That's what we play, a non-conventional sport. It shouldn't be considered lesser than basketball or football.
We have specific requirements to be fulfilled in order to recieve our points. In addition, the comment about flying weighed down, doesn't relate in the way it was intended to. What we do requires skill. Also, is golf considered a sport, it follows the critetia of a sport, however it also requires a specific score in order to play successfully.
Flexibility isn't much of a defense either... Minus the flexibilty, your reasoning has no validity. We go through just as much as other sports plus more... Shouldn't that give us any recognition for our efforts and struggles?

paraphrased for flags said...

Please note that I think flag twirlers are not just athletes, but remarkable athletes. Pep flags requires strength, speed, stamina, dexterity, balance, timing, guts and just about everything other imaginable athletic skill.

But pep flags is a COMPETITION, not a SPORT, and it has nothing to do with how difficult or entertaining it is. It is simply a matter of how the winner is determined. It is the same for figure skating, gymnastics, diving, beauty pageants or anything that chooses a champion solely by human judging.

A sport needs to have a quantifiable way to determine a winner and a loser. There can be no debate about the scoring system. A ball must go into a goal or through a hoop; a runner must reach home or finish before the others. The winners run faster, jump higher, score more.

In some sports a clock is used to determine a winner, but the clock is not subjective. Besides, you can't have 53 guys racing down a ski hill at the same time. The clock is a judge, but it is an objective one.

Pep flags has none of this. Everything is about interpretation of success. It is about what the judge thinks, believes, feels. There is nothing absolutely quantifiable. Yes, the level of difficulty counts, but in the end if two people do the same trick or twirl, a human has to decide which one he or she likes better.

That is not a sport.

Some will argue that referees are essentially judges, determining who scores and who doesn't. But a referee is merely there to assure order and make the competitors follow the rules.

Yes, in most sports, the referee has the freedom to determine right and wrong by what he sees – a false start, an illegal advantage – but he is not determining the final victor. His assignment is to simply ensure fair play. The refs can't just say that while one team scored more points, they thought the other one was better anyway.

No judge should ever determine a winner in a true sport. When you have that, whether it is ice skating, gymnastics or diving, you have a COMPETITION.

It isn't any different than American Idol. It can be fun to watch, the athletes can be talented and tenacious, it can be a great competition, but it isn't a sport.

It just isn't.

Anonymous said...

Sport is an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. Sports commonly refer to activities where the physical capabilities of the competitor are the sole or primary determiner of the outcome.But the term is also used to include activities such as mind sports and motor sports where mental acuity or equipment quality are major factors.

so by definition Short Flags is a sport.

Anonymous said...


It's a sport.

Anonymous said...

It's not a sports, its more of a competition squad. Take marching bad for example.. they too go through rigorous hours of preparation and intense training.. but you don't say that marching band is a sport. if you don't think it's a sport, you try blowing into a tuba for 10 minutes while marching down the field or carrying a 15 lb drum keeping the rhythm of the band. they too are scored based on their performance, excecution, and musicianship. sport it isn't, competition it is. I'm sure that's just intense if not more intense than twirling flags. Aside from that, twirl flags is not a sport per say, but more of a competition as many have mentioned above.

Anonymous said...

sorry for the many misspellings ^ above.. i'm at work so i was typing fast trying not to get caught.. hehe

Anonymous said...

btw.. boxing.. considered a sport, but not awarded by the punches they make.. points are distributed by the judges based on their view of each round

Anonymous said...

I disagree twirling a flag
around in the air
Putting make up on,
fixing your hair in a
curly bun, and doing other
superficial things like
that is not part of a

smart-one said...

If it was a sport
then it would be in
the sport section
and not the spirit
so, MODED!!!

Anonymous said...

those last two comments aren't event valid arguments, they are options and nothing more. it does not matter whether or not points are given or earned,
Wrestling, Boxing, Diving, Gymnastics, Ice skating, Surfing, Fencing, Skiing, etc... would no longer count as a sport.
no one who has posted against the matter has stated a good or valid reason on why short flags is not a sport.

as an earlier post states;
"Sport is an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. Sports commonly refer to activities where the physical capabilities of the competitor are the sole or primary determiner of the outcome"

Anonymous said...

"Putting make up on,
fixing your hair"

hahahaha Thats funny, in that case Football isn't a sport too!

Since they alot of players put on some kind of face paint and other accessories, how about some player that take time out before a game to braid/style their hair.

Anonymous said...

Wikipedia: Sport:
Sport is an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. Sports commonly refer to activities where the physical capabilities of the competitor are the sole or primary determiner of the outcome (winning or losing)